From glaubitz@physik.fu-berlin.de Wed Jun 19 22:40:33 2013 Received: from relay1.zedat.fu-berlin.de ([130.133.4.67]) by list1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.80.1) for linux-minidisc@lists.fu-berlin.de with esmtp (envelope-from ) id <1UpPB9-002vMt-JQ>; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 22:40:31 +0200 Received: from mx.physik.fu-berlin.de ([160.45.64.218]) by relay1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.80.1) for linux-minidisc@lists.fu-berlin.de with esmtp (envelope-from ) id <1UpPB9-002FSR-HM>; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 22:40:31 +0200 Received: from squeeze64.physik.fu-berlin.de ([160.45.66.239] helo=login.physik.fu-berlin.de) by mx.physik.fu-berlin.de with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1UpPB8-0004Pb-FA for linux-minidisc@lists.fu-berlin.de; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 22:40:30 +0200 Received: from glaubitz by login.physik.fu-berlin.de with local (Exim 4.72 #1 (Debian)) id 1UpPB8-0000Oi-E8 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 22:40:30 +0200 Resent-From: John Paul Adrian Glaubitz Resent-Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 22:40:30 +0200 Resent-Message-ID: <20130619204030.GA1521@physik.fu-berlin.de> Resent-To: linux-minidisc@lists.fu-berlin.de Received: by 10.15.23.77 with SMTP id g53csp247307eeu; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 13:13:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.61.19 with SMTP id l19mr150732obr.55.1371672781419; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 13:13:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ie0-x241.google.com (mail-ie0-x241.google.com [2607:f8b0:4001:c03::241]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id qh3si14338505obc.166.2013.06.19.13.13.00 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 19 Jun 2013 13:13:01 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of canalweb@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4001:c03::241 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4001:c03::241; Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of canalweb@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4001:c03::241 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=canalweb@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com Received: by mail-ie0-x241.google.com with SMTP id s9so4561120iec.0 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 13:13:00 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of canalweb@gmail.com designates 10.50.20.194 as permitted sender) client-ip=10.50.20.194 X-Received: from mr.google.com ([10.50.20.194]) by 10.50.20.194 with SMTP id p2mr6518439ige.10.1371672779812 (num_hops = 1); Wed, 19 Jun 2013 13:12:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=Y3M+JuCcLABJh5lmJSo0iz1XqpYgiqC/IHknMhcm8r4=; b=uKd5Ky/KPoIZg0UxAq19XhwPIy8Z3C0itbxahfh9TKNgqmilQCEkB/dNxZ9aIHriPF s62HFAw99eyCEndRotMulZUL+CjztppaxBmrPyGh5CTkoTKn0v3/WOiQxoHfYxaXBioN 9Rg80yGgf/OXpamYU8zkO5a4NUm1iMi4OuKGJWHt+wglbvU5gzi/S8LuGUQIPMTjvaBz znGIsGeru6TzJq8MAagKoh4TaOsIeTBfA99nQhA5loKJX3Q7H7OrbbUakNuktU4vCjTG n9UZ5N0eC74kPvrYgW9zEbG+onFxhmS01o3ZZvFIGehZ82lDP85/FxxyB+43TLSl1Que R+Pw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.20.194 with SMTP id p2mr6518439ige.10.1371672779808; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 13:12:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.23.240 with HTTP; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 13:12:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 22:12:59 +0200 Message-ID: From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jean=2DFran=E7ois_Dejardin?= To: adrian.glaubitz@googlemail.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bd76ed2c9e80404df877445 Resent-Sender: John Paul Adrian Glaubitz X-Originating-IP: 160.45.64.218 X-ZEDAT-Hint: A X-purgate: clean X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate-ID: 151147::1371674431-0000097E-A8457622/0-0/0-0 X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000138, version=1.2.3 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE,T_DKIM_INVALID X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.3-zedat0a54d5a on Dschibuti.ZEDAT.FU-Berlin.DE X-Spam-Level: Subject: [linux-minidisc] About PC to MD X-BeenThere: linux-minidisc@lists.fu-berlin.de X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Mailing list for the linux-minidisc project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 20:40:33 -0000 --047d7bd76ed2c9e80404df877445 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hello, I have a little question about transfer music PC to MD with net-MD unit. the SP mode transfer is a true SP mode ? not a SP mode (no-MDLP) compatibility like SS ? Thanks, Jeff --047d7bd76ed2c9e80404df877445 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Hello,

I have a little question about transfer music PC to MD with net-MD unit.
the SP mode transfer is a true SP mode ? not a SP mode (no-MDLP) compatibility like SS ?

Thanks,
Jeff
--047d7bd76ed2c9e80404df877445-- From Michael.Karcher@fu-berlin.de Wed Jun 19 22:57:52 2013 Received: from outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de ([130.133.4.66]) by list1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.80.1) for linux-minidisc@lists.fu-berlin.de with esmtp (envelope-from ) id <1UpPRv-002xkO-2X>; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 22:57:51 +0200 Received: from inpost2.zedat.fu-berlin.de ([130.133.4.69]) by outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.80.1) with esmtp (envelope-from ) id <1UpPRv-0009p9-0j>; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 22:57:51 +0200 Received: from port-92-204-97-83.dynamic.qsc.de ([92.204.97.83] helo=[192.168.178.25]) by inpost2.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.80.1) with esmtpsa (envelope-from ) id <1UpPRu-002aNH-R5>; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 22:57:51 +0200 Message-ID: <1371675604.3031.7.camel@localhost> From: Michael Karcher To: linux-minidisc mailing list Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 23:00:04 +0200 In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.8.0-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 92.204.97.83 X-purgate: clean X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate-ID: 151147::1371675471-0000097E-50553907/0-0/0-0 X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000001, version=1.2.3 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Status: No, score=-50.0 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.3-zedat0a54d5a on Burundi.ZEDAT.FU-Berlin.DE X-Spam-Level: Cc: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jean-Fran=E7ois?= Dejardin Subject: Re: [linux-minidisc] About PC to MD X-BeenThere: linux-minidisc@lists.fu-berlin.de X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Mailing list for the linux-minidisc project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 20:57:52 -0000 Am Mittwoch, den 19.06.2013, 22:12 +0200 schrieb Jean-François Dejardin: > I have a little question about transfer music PC to MD with net-MD > unit. > the SP mode transfer is a true SP mode ? not a SP mode (no-MDLP) > compatibility like SS ? I am afraid I do not know the current state of our tools by heart, by on the low level, for SP transfers, you get raw uncompressed PCM on the USB cable, which gets encoded to SP by the MD recorder. Indeed Sonic Stage creates this raw PCM stream by decoding an LP2 encoded track instead of picking any better quality file (or even uncompressed file) that is also associated with the same track. We do not emulate this no-brainer and/or have no intentions to do so. Regards, Michael Karcher From Michael.Karcher@fu-berlin.de Wed Jun 19 23:19:53 2013 Received: from outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de ([130.133.4.66]) by list1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.80.1) for linux-minidisc@lists.fu-berlin.de with esmtp (envelope-from ) id <1UpPnE-0030d7-7g>; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 23:19:52 +0200 Received: from inpost2.zedat.fu-berlin.de ([130.133.4.69]) by outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.80.1) with esmtp (envelope-from ) id <1UpPnE-000IX0-62>; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 23:19:52 +0200 Received: from port-92-204-97-83.dynamic.qsc.de ([92.204.97.83] helo=[192.168.178.25]) by inpost2.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.80.1) with esmtpsa (envelope-from ) id <1UpPnE-002bme-01>; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 23:19:52 +0200 Message-ID: <1371676926.3031.11.camel@localhost> From: Michael Karcher To: linux-minidisc mailing list Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 23:22:06 +0200 In-Reply-To: References: <1371675604.3031.7.camel@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.8.0-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Originating-IP: 92.204.97.83 X-purgate: clean X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate-ID: 151147::1371676792-0000097E-32FDEEFD/0-0/0-0 X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.001475, version=1.2.3 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Status: No, score=-50.0 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.3-zedat0a54d5a on Botsuana.ZEDAT.FU-Berlin.DE X-Spam-Level: Cc: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jean-Fran=E7ois?= Dejardin Subject: Re: [linux-minidisc] About PC to MD X-BeenThere: linux-minidisc@lists.fu-berlin.de X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Mailing list for the linux-minidisc project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 21:19:53 -0000 Am Mittwoch, den 19.06.2013, 23:09 +0200 schrieb Jean-François Dejardin: > If I use your tool and transfer pcm to netMD unit in sp mode I get a > sound in the same quality or less quality than I transfer my music > with a spdif cable ? I just checked. Our tool netmdcli, as we publish it at the moment, does not support transfer from pcm to a netMD unit without being patched. The same applies to downloadhack (an old proof-of-concept). If the software gets improved to allow that kind of transfer, I am very confident it yields the same quality as an SPDIF transfer, as in both cases the encoding from PCM to SP is performed by the recorder, so most likely the same encoder. Regards, Michael Karcher PS: please reply to the list From Michael.Karcher@fu-berlin.de Wed Jun 19 23:16:14 2013 Received: from outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de ([130.133.4.66]) by list1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.80.1) for linux-minidisc@lists.fu-berlin.de with esmtp (envelope-from ) id <1UpPjg-0030H4-Un>; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 23:16:13 +0200 Received: from inpost2.zedat.fu-berlin.de ([130.133.4.69]) by outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.80.1) with esmtp (envelope-from ) id <1UpPjg-000HCP-Sx>; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 23:16:12 +0200 Received: from port-92-204-97-83.dynamic.qsc.de ([92.204.97.83] helo=[192.168.178.25]) by inpost2.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.80.1) with esmtpsa (envelope-from ) id <1UpPjg-002bcD-Lx>; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 23:16:12 +0200 Received: from deliver1.zedat.fu-berlin.de ([130.133.4.79]) by mbox2.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.80.1) for mkarcher@zedat.fu-berlin.de with esmtp (envelope-from ) id <1UpPd0-003iYh-QB>; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 23:09:18 +0200 Received: from dispatch2.zedat.fu-berlin.de ([130.133.4.71]) by deliver1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.80.1) for mkarcher@zedat.fu-berlin.de with esmtp (envelope-from ) id <1UpPd0-003ix1-Pd>; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 23:09:18 +0200 Received: from dispatch1.zedat.fu-berlin.de ([130.133.4.70]) by dispatch2.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.80.1) for mkarcher@zedat.fu-berlin.de with esmtp (envelope-from ) id <1UpPcr-002Eaz-Ub>; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 23:09:09 +0200 Received: from inpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de ([130.133.4.68]) by dispatch1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.80.1) for mkarcher@zedat.fu-berlin.de with esmtp (envelope-from ) id <1UpPcr-000BNi-36>; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 23:09:09 +0200 Received: from outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de ([130.133.4.66]) by inpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.80.1) for mkarcher@zedat.fu-berlin.de with esmtp (envelope-from ) id <1UpPcq-002Dix-B1>; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 23:09:08 +0200 Received: from relay1.zedat.fu-berlin.de ([130.133.4.67]) by outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.80.1) for mkarcher@zedat.fu-berlin.de with esmtp (envelope-from ) id <1UpPcq-000EQM-8v>; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 23:09:08 +0200 Received: from mail-ie0-f175.google.com ([209.85.223.175]) by relay1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.80.1) for Michael.Karcher@fu-berlin.de with esmtp (envelope-from ) id <1UpPcq-002JMO-2o>; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 23:09:08 +0200 Received: by mail-ie0-f175.google.com with SMTP id a13so13925115iee.6 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 14:09:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=zLopPKvCGO8VpK0Wig/wHwmA/Rvipt+qiU7d/lEa2d4=; b=YIfN2R1rCPpzOkM2/gex6+kGpOSjHTR/l53EMS8XJ3xALeOin/QfGU8f1Jb8yXt6uG sfMNVR73OCm0E8O2SYmULAIISUJLpRGIC0qvW9cMwdTC9XL++kQXdLTUNU17/uynJEK7 GvhRiCxr9nGhgtoMXR19/f6Qi1zAHCguhh2udq6MEXzR6Lb+DsQGIQsQGjmQ8ydlgjNn UsNPkv2BzBMV4p3rN+6sdB+YLRlqdMIkLKZMZ/E3fE8e8vl/i60m0DgySrqWWixMlQTs wySN61PaSp7pdyVFdtTkQPoTToNRVGM+8eUvTANxPu69+TmUql494P60HWXQ+ZZ0zZhX +3yg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.20.194 with SMTP id p2mr6622542ige.10.1371676146313; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 14:09:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.64.23.240 with HTTP; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 14:09:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1371675604.3031.7.camel@localhost> References: <1371675604.3031.7.camel@localhost> Message-ID: From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jean=2DFran=E7ois_Dejardin?= To: Michael Karcher Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bd76ed272b12c04df883dd0 X-purgate: clean X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate-ID: 151147::1371676149-0000097E-203B1B43/0-0/0-0 X-ZEDAT-Hint: A/A Resent-From: Michael Karcher Resent-To: Michael Karcher Resent-Cc: linux-minidisc mailing list Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 23:18:26 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: X-Mailer: Evolution 3.8.0-1 X-Originating-IP: 92.204.97.83 X-purgate: clean X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate-ID: 151147::1371676572-0000097E-BC595765/0-0/0-0 X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.009761, version=1.2.3 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Status: No, score=-50.0 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,HTML_MESSAGE, T_DKIM_INVALID X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.3-zedat0a54d5a on Burundi.ZEDAT.FU-Berlin.DE X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 23:25:01 +0200 Subject: Re: [linux-minidisc] About PC to MD X-BeenThere: linux-minidisc@lists.fu-berlin.de X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Mailing list for the linux-minidisc project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 21:16:14 -0000 --047d7bd76ed272b12c04df883dd0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit If I use your tool and transfer pcm to netMD unit in sp mode I get a sound in the same quality or less quality than I transfer my music with a spdif cable ? 2013/6/19 Michael Karcher > Am Mittwoch, den 19.06.2013, 22:12 +0200 schrieb Jean-François Dejardin: > > > I have a little question about transfer music PC to MD with net-MD > > unit. > > the SP mode transfer is a true SP mode ? not a SP mode (no-MDLP) > > compatibility like SS ? > > I am afraid I do not know the current state of our tools by heart, by on > the low level, for SP transfers, you get raw uncompressed PCM on the USB > cable, which gets encoded to SP by the MD recorder. > Indeed Sonic Stage creates this raw PCM stream by decoding an LP2 > encoded track instead of picking any better quality file (or even > uncompressed file) that is also associated with the same track. We do > not emulate this no-brainer and/or have no intentions to do so. > > Regards, > Michael Karcher > > > --047d7bd76ed272b12c04df883dd0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
If I use your tool and transfer pcm to netMD unit in sp mode I get a sound in the same quality or less quality than I transfer my music with a spdif cable ?


2013/6/19 Michael Karcher <Michael.Karcher@fu-berlin.de>
Am Mittwoch, den 19.06.2013, 22:12 +0200 schrieb Jean-François Dejardin:

> I have a little question about transfer music PC to MD with net-MD
> unit.
> the SP mode transfer is a true SP mode ? not a SP mode (no-MDLP)
> compatibility like SS ?

I am afraid I do not know the current state of our tools by heart, by on
the low level, for SP transfers, you get raw uncompressed PCM on the USB
cable, which gets encoded to SP by the MD recorder.
Indeed Sonic Stage creates this raw PCM stream by decoding an LP2
encoded track instead of picking any better quality file (or even
uncompressed file) that is also associated with the same track. We do
not emulate this no-brainer and/or have no intentions to do so.

Regards,
  Michael Karcher



--047d7bd76ed272b12c04df883dd0-- From Michael.Karcher@fu-berlin.de Thu Jun 20 00:15:07 2013 Received: from outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de ([130.133.4.66]) by list1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.80.1) for linux-minidisc@lists.fu-berlin.de with esmtp (envelope-from ) id <1UpQef-0034IC-Ny>; Thu, 20 Jun 2013 00:15:05 +0200 Received: from inpost2.zedat.fu-berlin.de ([130.133.4.69]) by outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.80.1) with esmtp (envelope-from ) id <1UpQef-000cM8-M7>; Thu, 20 Jun 2013 00:15:05 +0200 Received: from port-92-204-97-83.dynamic.qsc.de ([92.204.97.83] helo=[192.168.178.25]) by inpost2.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.80.1) with esmtpsa (envelope-from ) id <1UpQef-002f06-G4>; Thu, 20 Jun 2013 00:15:05 +0200 Message-ID: <1371680240.3031.17.camel@localhost> From: Michael Karcher To: linux-minidisc mailing list Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2013 00:17:20 +0200 In-Reply-To: <-6151015631880849366@unknownmsgid> References: <1371675604.3031.7.camel@localhost> <-6151015631880849366@unknownmsgid> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.8.0-1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: 92.204.97.83 X-purgate: clean X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate-ID: 151147::1371680105-0000097E-070F29D9/0-0/0-0 X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000005, version=1.2.3 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Status: No, score=-50.0 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.3-zedat0a54d5a on Benin.ZEDAT.FU-Berlin.DE X-Spam-Level: Cc: Taliesin Bardolobo Subject: Re: [linux-minidisc] About PC to MD X-BeenThere: linux-minidisc@lists.fu-berlin.de X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Mailing list for the linux-minidisc project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 22:15:07 -0000 Am Mittwoch, den 19.06.2013, 23:13 +0200 schrieb Taliesin Bardolobo: > Do you mean we will get true SP transfers by USB or have understood it > wrong way? There is no such thing as a "true SP *transfer*". The transfer itself is not in SP encoded form. But I expect you mean: "A transfer that results in a track has the same quality as if recorded from a digital source by the MD recorder", it is indeed the case. > And if so, would this work only in HiMD or also in NetMD? > This would be fantaaaastic :D This is *only* applicable to NetMD (or Hi-MD devices operating in NetMD mode). Hi-MD is unable to store ATRAC SP encoded tracks at all. Every NetMD capable recorder (with or without Hi-MD ability) is able to receive raw PCM over USB and encode it on-the-fly to SP and write it to a NetMD formatted medium. Regards, Michael Karcher From bardolobo@gmail.com Thu Jun 20 00:22:04 2013 Received: from relay1.zedat.fu-berlin.de ([130.133.4.67]) by list1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.80.1) for linux-minidisc@lists.fu-berlin.de with esmtp (envelope-from ) id <1UpQlP-0034gi-5E>; Thu, 20 Jun 2013 00:22:03 +0200 Received: from mail-lb0-f177.google.com ([209.85.217.177]) by relay1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.80.1) for linux-minidisc@lists.fu-berlin.de with esmtp (envelope-from ) id <1UpQlP-002TnR-2o>; Thu, 20 Jun 2013 00:22:03 +0200 Received: by mail-lb0-f177.google.com with SMTP id 10so5091659lbf.22 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 15:22:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=references:from:in-reply-to:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=qpaZuLlgVKbvj753xOpIhWXvV1tHbDL9zcf1IUIF+8E=; b=fBmwe9PsYcjuVRqPaTtrzIM8HA2cpMXV+bC7gfiFT2wfXrmI9ujCjeH3oU8MyCxdbG 8VbFe4aMwXqaTD96/tU9z9Y97oqtuCsHhMaFX5RXQMuvNObRJE9tux7no3GfDvSn/LPx N/JTO7XDRLx/neuONsqJLq1dFlKjsR3UXglAPdpE2NqyIEPkMkuSNFNbzU60D9aPE19F 9mC/LH+OMETwxSoBZJ0YeAbweEZXpLjMnp46BbXAK9Rr72Nm8/Ant9yhoFdisXTsuibl /wXmaEyhU43EEebxKyocTst+bjj4NmVP/JpqkcG5anDwU53gloMjWO27aKtxsdEOnnWG SIMQ== X-Received: by 10.152.6.169 with SMTP id c9mr2320733laa.47.1371680521693; Wed, 19 Jun 2013 15:22:01 -0700 (PDT) References: <1371675604.3031.7.camel@localhost> <-6151015631880849366@unknownmsgid> From: Taliesin Bardolobo In-Reply-To: <-6151015631880849366@unknownmsgid> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2013 00:21:58 +0200 Message-ID: <-1724309461882240754@unknownmsgid> To: Michael Karcher , Lista de Correo de QHiMD Transfer Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Originating-IP: 209.85.217.177 X-purgate: clean X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate-ID: 151147::1371680523-0000097E-1684B6FD/0-0/0-0 X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000000, version=1.2.3 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.7 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_RELAY_MUA_TO_MX, FREEMAIL_FROM,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,T_DKIM_INVALID X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.3-zedat0a54d5a on Dschibuti.ZEDAT.FU-Berlin.DE X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 20 Jun 2013 00:54:54 +0200 Subject: Re: [linux-minidisc] About PC to MD X-BeenThere: linux-minidisc@lists.fu-berlin.de X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Mailing list for the linux-minidisc project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 22:22:04 -0000 Upps, sorry, sent by mistake. With only HiMD I was meaning "only newer HiMD machines" or, more specifically, RH1 :) Thanks. El 19/06/2013, a las 23:13, Taliesin Bardolobo escrib= i=F3: > Hi Michael. > > Do you mean we will get true SP transfers by USB or have understood it > wrong way? And if so, would this work only in HiMD or also in NetMD? > This would be fantaaaastic :D > > Thanks > > El 19/06/2013, a las 22:57, Michael Karcher > escribi=F3: > >> Am Mittwoch, den 19.06.2013, 22:12 +0200 schrieb Jean-Fran=E7ois Dejardi= n: >> >>> I have a little question about transfer music PC to MD with net-MD >>> unit. >>> the SP mode transfer is a true SP mode ? not a SP mode (no-MDLP) >>> compatibility like SS ? >> >> I am afraid I do not know the current state of our tools by heart, by on >> the low level, for SP transfers, you get raw uncompressed PCM on the USB >> cable, which gets encoded to SP by the MD recorder. >> Indeed Sonic Stage creates this raw PCM stream by decoding an LP2 >> encoded track instead of picking any better quality file (or even >> uncompressed file) that is also associated with the same track. We do >> not emulate this no-brainer and/or have no intentions to do so. >> >> Regards, >> Michael Karcher >> >> _______________________________________________ >> linux-minidisc mailing list >> linux-minidisc@lists.fu-berlin.de >> https://lists.fu-berlin.de/listinfo/linux-minidisc From glaubitz@physik.fu-berlin.de Thu Jun 20 01:54:45 2013 Received: from outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de ([130.133.4.66]) by list1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.80.1) for linux-minidisc@lists.fu-berlin.de with esmtp (envelope-from ) id <1UpSD5-0039dP-W3>; Thu, 20 Jun 2013 01:54:44 +0200 Received: from inpost2.zedat.fu-berlin.de ([130.133.4.69]) by outpost1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.80.1) with esmtp (envelope-from ) id <1UpSD5-0018H2-U7>; Thu, 20 Jun 2013 01:54:43 +0200 Received: from port-92-206-37-158.dynamic.qsc.de ([92.206.37.158] helo=[192.168.178.36]) by inpost2.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.80.1) with esmtpsa (envelope-from ) id <1UpSD5-002kA4-Px>; Thu, 20 Jun 2013 01:54:43 +0200 Message-ID: <51C244C7.2070006@physik.fu-berlin.de> Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2013 01:54:47 +0200 From: John Paul Adrian Glaubitz User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130518 Icedove/17.0.5 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Taliesin Bardolobo References: <1371675604.3031.7.camel@localhost> <-6151015631880849366@unknownmsgid> <-1724309461882240754@unknownmsgid> In-Reply-To: <-1724309461882240754@unknownmsgid> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: 92.206.37.158 X-purgate: clean X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate-ID: 151147::1371686083-0000097E-55FB70BD/0-0/0-0 X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.063088, version=1.2.3 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Status: No, score=-50.0 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.3-zedat0a54d5a on Botsuana.ZEDAT.FU-Berlin.DE X-Spam-Level: Cc: "linux-minidisc@lists.fu-berlin.de" Subject: Re: [linux-minidisc] About PC to MD X-BeenThere: linux-minidisc@lists.fu-berlin.de X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Mailing list for the linux-minidisc project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2013 23:54:45 -0000 On 06/20/2013 12:21 AM, Taliesin Bardolobo wrote: >> Do you mean we will get true SP transfers by USB or have understood it >> wrong way? And if so, would this work only in HiMD or also in NetMD? >> This would be fantaaaastic :D I think you are still missing the point. It was *always* possible to write true ATRAC SP tracks through NetMD onto a MiniDisc and never possible using a HiMD: NetMD players fully support ATRAC-SP to be backwards compatible with classic MiniDisc players and recorders as these support ATRAC-SP only. What actually happens is that the PC sends the NetMD device a PCM stream which is encoded by the NetMD device into ATRAC-SP on the fly, there is no ATRAC-SP encoder available in SonicStage, as far as I know. However, since Sony does not grant you the ATRAC-SP quality when transferring audio data to NetMD, they first transcode even lossless audio formats into ATRAC-LP, then into PCM which is finally sent to the NetMD device where it is encoded *by the device* into ATRAC-SP. Again, if you want your NetMD recording to be playable on a classic MiniDisc device, the tracks have to be ATRAC-SP. Sony just artificially deteriorates the audio quality on purpose. Therefore, the only thing the computer has to get proper ATRAC-SP recordings is not to mess up with the audio quality in the first place and send lossless audio directly encoded as lossless PCM to the NetMD device and have the device encode the stream into ATRAC-SP. And we already do that with our software. It would actually more difficult and tedious to do it the way SonicStage does as there is no free ATRAC-LP encoder that I know of. As for HiMD: HiMD never supported ATRAC-SP. HiMD devices (in HiMD mode) support ATRAC3+ with different quality settings as well as uncompressed PCM audio. Cheers, Adrian -- .''`. John Paul Adrian Glaubitz : :' : Debian Developer - glaubitz@debian.org `. `' Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaubitz@physik.fu-berlin.de `- GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546 0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913 From bardolobo@gmail.com Thu Jun 20 10:45:51 2013 Received: from relay1.zedat.fu-berlin.de ([130.133.4.67]) by list1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.80.1) for linux-minidisc@lists.fu-berlin.de with esmtp (envelope-from ) id <1UpaV4-003rpF-Mb>; Thu, 20 Jun 2013 10:45:50 +0200 Received: from mail-la0-f44.google.com ([209.85.215.44]) by relay1.zedat.fu-berlin.de (Exim 4.80.1) for linux-minidisc@lists.fu-berlin.de with esmtp (envelope-from ) id <1UpaV4-003iz0-KC>; Thu, 20 Jun 2013 10:45:50 +0200 Received: by mail-la0-f44.google.com with SMTP id er20so5499802lab.31 for ; Thu, 20 Jun 2013 01:45:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=references:from:in-reply-to:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=p0LwSW4+an6GPARB+rlXWknKtX55x0+p7hxfCUn+/CE=; b=xOZA5b0ObKuCAH/rohpwfEJe5uu0Jw3EvCYKh39GrHUjMgOCLkQ4duqqF59xZwAmMp jeXnNa74fqUggpGh4PQN/Omg31+9Xbfn2ifLs4I55/Jkgi1/oJDXa498LYbieo8KiSCo gUo4JeBEtney6MLcF/KJT0/X6tpB8e8UgMDk8p1Bjz/E2j/Eu87AiMCm8TvKGsnZESK1 0iJGGC2o6aWxzI1DC/eIJ/9ckWkwpweT0Cml0auI811dKx6hWDZ2DKdwciys9B6C6eWR ShGMBWT3+TdYQpAqavWFIjb0O3mXEHlMhsT/2nQ3u14YX0pKG8k+fqbWQesLym2fi9Op lhAA== X-Received: by 10.152.87.43 with SMTP id u11mr3120393laz.71.1371717949095; Thu, 20 Jun 2013 01:45:49 -0700 (PDT) References: <1371675604.3031.7.camel@localhost> <-6151015631880849366@unknownmsgid> <-1724309461882240754@unknownmsgid> <51C244C7.2070006@physik.fu-berlin.de> From: Taliesin Bardolobo In-Reply-To: <51C244C7.2070006@physik.fu-berlin.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2013 10:45:38 +0200 Message-ID: <-8788425933900677855@unknownmsgid> To: John Paul Adrian Glaubitz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Originating-IP: 209.85.215.44 X-purgate: clean X-purgate-type: clean X-purgate-ID: 151147::1371717950-0000097E-4D4E12E0/0-0/0-0 X-Bogosity: Ham, tests=bogofilter, spamicity=0.000025, version=1.2.3 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.7 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_RELAY_MUA_TO_MX, FREEMAIL_FROM,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,T_DKIM_INVALID X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.3-zedat0a54d5a on Benin.ZEDAT.FU-Berlin.DE X-Spam-Level: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 20 Jun 2013 10:56:38 +0200 Cc: "linux-minidisc@lists.fu-berlin.de" Subject: Re: [linux-minidisc] About PC to MD X-BeenThere: linux-minidisc@lists.fu-berlin.de X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: Mailing list for the linux-minidisc project List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2013 08:45:52 -0000 Well, when I said "fake sp in Sonicstage" I was meaning to that trouble: If you use Sonicstage you never get same quality than when you record using a digital output (a DVD player, for instance). So yes, I was meaning pc sending a song that first convert to LP and then transcode to PCM, then MD again encodes it to SP, and was hoping your software could send PCM to MD without that intermediate conversion in order to get a "good SP" (that is encoded by the MD machine, of course). My fault for not explaining me well. So many years talking about this problem in forums that I have get bad habits calling it "fake sp" :) And you says your software do that, so...CHEERS!!! :) That drives me to another question: is this available in present version of QHiMD transfer, so I can just download it and use it this way? (note: I have lots of blank media waiting to do this :p ). And I know you can't record on sp in a HI-MD disk. I was meaning to record sp tracks into a "normal disk" (not a iMD one) on a Hi-MD machine with NetMD mode. For example, you can tweak RH10 into service mode to enable sp recording (although you lost some other options by doing this) and I can recall there were other models you can do the same with. My question was about if there will be any trouble recording SP with such machines, since I know they're are some actions restricted by hardware to some units (RH1, for example, can do things other HiMD units can't). I supposed as far as your machine can record sp, you can use your software to do so, since sp encoding is doing by the unit, but maybe there is any problem I ain't conscious of (although I hope no :D ) Thanks. El 20/06/2013, a las 01:54, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz escribi=F3: > On 06/20/2013 12:21 AM, Taliesin Bardolobo wrote: >>> Do you mean we will get true SP transfers by USB or have understood it >>> wrong way? And if so, would this work only in HiMD or also in NetMD? >>> This would be fantaaaastic :D > > I think you are still missing the point. It was *always* possible to > write true ATRAC SP tracks through NetMD onto a MiniDisc and never > possible using a HiMD: > > NetMD players fully support ATRAC-SP to be backwards compatible with > classic MiniDisc players and recorders as these support ATRAC-SP only. > > What actually happens is that the PC sends the NetMD device a PCM stream > which is encoded by the NetMD device into ATRAC-SP on the fly, there > is no ATRAC-SP encoder available in SonicStage, as far as I know. > > However, since Sony does not grant you the ATRAC-SP quality when > transferring audio data to NetMD, they first transcode even lossless > audio formats into ATRAC-LP, then into PCM which is finally sent to > the NetMD device where it is encoded *by the device* into ATRAC-SP. > > Again, if you want your NetMD recording to be playable on a classic > MiniDisc device, the tracks have to be ATRAC-SP. Sony just artificially > deteriorates the audio quality on purpose. > > Therefore, the only thing the computer has to get proper ATRAC-SP > recordings is not to mess up with the audio quality in the first > place and send lossless audio directly encoded as lossless PCM > to the NetMD device and have the device encode the stream into > ATRAC-SP. And we already do that with our software. It would actually > more difficult and tedious to do it the way SonicStage does as > there is no free ATRAC-LP encoder that I know of. > > As for HiMD: HiMD never supported ATRAC-SP. HiMD devices (in HiMD > mode) support ATRAC3+ with different quality settings as well as > uncompressed PCM audio. > > Cheers, > > Adrian > > -- > .''`. John Paul Adrian Glaubitz > : :' : Debian Developer - glaubitz@debian.org > `. `' Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaubitz@physik.fu-berlin.de > `- GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546 0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913